Two excellent communicators. Zero good dates. What is happening out there?

In the finale of this series, Lisa and Heather DeSiena bring the energy way up — because we're talking modern dating, and honestly, it's a lot. These are two women who are accomplished, self-aware, genuinely curious about other humans, and somehow still eating dinner alone. If that's relatable to you, pull up a chair.

In this episode:

• The false abundance mindset — why infinite swiping has trained everyone to never actually invest in anyone in front of them
• The upgrade trap: why "the next one might be better" is keeping everybody perpetually single and perpetually disappointed
• Why nobody asks questions anymore (and why a man who can hold a real conversation in real time is apparently a rare and endangered species)
• Sharp edges vs. soft energy — how building a career in male-dominated spaces quietly rewires how you show up on a first date
• "My standards are too high" — said by people whose marriages Lisa and Heather would absolutely not want
• A live, unscripted matchmaking pitch that you genuinely need to hear to believe

Fair warning: this episode gets a little silly toward the end. There is a Divorce Curious dating game show concept floated, referrals are solicited, and Lisa volunteers to personally vet all candidates. We are not joking. Drop your nominations in the comments.

This is the final episode of the three-part Heather DeSiena series — if you haven't listened to Parts 1 and 2 yet, go back. They're worth it.

And if this whole series has you doing some honest reflecting on your own relationship, grab Lisa's free Evaluate Your Relationship workbook at lisamitchell.biz/podcast. Good questions, zero judgment.

Connect with Heather: Instagram: @heatherdesciena LinkedIn: Heather DeSiena

TEXT ME! Let me know what you think of this episode or what topics you would like to see covered next!

Want more Divorce Curious goodness? Sign up for my newsletter https://lisamitchell.biz/divorce-curious

Have a comment for me or a topic you want to see covered on the podcast? Email me at lisa@lisamitchell.biz

Connect with me on Instagram at @divorcecurioushelp

You did everything right. You communicated. You tried. You listened to your gut. And it still ended.

This week Lisa and Heather DeSiena get into the part nobody really talks about — what happens when a relationship ends not because of some dramatic blow-up, but because you were brave enough to be honest with yourself. Heather opens up about being engaged twice in her thirties, walking away from a wedding with eight weeks to go, and the particular kind of loneliness that comes when the life you planned just... doesn't happen that way.

In this episode:

• The sunk cost trap — why "we've invested so much time" is the worst reason to stay
• What Heather's corporate negotiation career taught her about walking away from a bad deal (yes, even at the altar)
• The silent treatment: petty power move or nervous system self-preservation? (Spoiler: Lisa and Heather have both done it, and neither is judging you)
• Why the people you expect to show up when things fall apart are often the first ones to go quiet
• "No deal is better than a bad deal" — and why this might be the most important relationship advice nobody gives you

This one gets real. Like, really real. Both Lisa and Heather show up as full humans in this conversation, which is exactly what makes it worth your hour.

Part 3 is coming — and we're getting into modern dating, the app fatigue spiral, and a live matchmaking situation that you genuinely do not want to miss.

If this episode has you doing some honest reflecting, grab Lisa's free Evaluate Your Relationship workbook at lisamitchell.biz/podcast. No judgment. Just good questions.

Connect with Heather:

https://www.heatherdesiena.com

https://www.instagram.com/heatherdesiena

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherdesiena

TEXT ME! Let me know what you think of this episode or what topics you would like to see covered next!

Want more Divorce Curious goodness? Sign up for my newsletter https://lisamitchell.biz/divorce-curious

Have a comment for me or a topic you want to see covered on the podcast? Email me at lisa@lisamitchell.biz

Connect with me on Instagram at @divorcecurioushelp

What if the same skills that close a seven-figure deal could also save you from your next kitchen table meltdown? Spoiler: they absolutely can — and this week's guest is living proof.

Lisa sits down with Heather DeSiena — former news anchor, corporate negotiator, keynote speaker, and (plot twist) seminary master's degree holder — to talk about what she calls heart-level negotiation. Turns out, whether you're closing a business deal or trying to have a hard conversation with your partner without it going completely sideways, you're working with the exact same stuff: people, emotions, and the desperate hope that someone in the room stays regulated.

In this episode:

• Why "soft skills" is a terrible term — and why these are actually the most important skills you have
• How to enter a hard conversation with intention instead of just feelings and vibes
• What somatic awareness has to do with your next argument (your body knows before your brain does)
• The pattern interruption trick that can stop a scripted fight before it even starts
• Why the more emotionally aware partner carries extra responsibility — unfair as that is

Heather is one of those guests who makes you feel like you should be taking notes, and also like it's completely okay that you've been doing some of this wrong. We've all been doing some of this wrong.

This is Part 1 of a 3-part series — and yes, it gets considerably more personal from here.

If this episode has you doing a little reflecting on your own relationship, the Evaluate Your Relationship workbook is a great place to start. Grab it at lisamitchell.biz/podcast.

Connect with Heather:

https://www.heatherdesiena.com

https://www.instagram.com/heatherdesiena

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherdesiena

TEXT ME! Let me know what you think of this episode or what topics you would like to see covered next!

Want more Divorce Curious goodness? Sign up for my newsletter https://lisamitchell.biz/divorce-curious

Have a comment for me or a topic you want to see covered on the podcast? Email me at lisa@lisamitchell.biz

Connect with me on Instagram at @divorcecurioushelp