A lot of founders spend their lives chasing one big idea.

Antonio Swad had two.

The first? Migrating chicken wings from the Happy Hour buffet to the center of the plate.

The second? Building a pizza business that catered to a very specific demographic: Latinos.

That first idea became Wingstop, a deep-fried wing concept that grew to 3,000 stores.

The second became Pizza Patron, a franchise that rewarded customers for ordering in Spanish, and let them pay in pesos.

This is the story of how Antonio got there.

He was a kid from Columbus, Ohio, working at a steakhouse straight out of high school…who eventually saw two big opportunities where no one else did.

Wingstop was the breakout idea, but just as it was exploding, Antonio made a surprising decision. He sold the company.

A $22 million deal.

Only…the money did not materialize.

What follows is one of the most surprising—and cautionary—tales we’ve told on this show: a single word buried in a contract that cost millions…and the moment Antonio realized he might never see the money he’d been promised.

This episode is about instinct, risk, conviction—and why sometimes…your biggest success can lead to your biggest mistake.

What you’ll learn:

• Why simplicity can beat variety in building scalable restaurants
• The power—and peril—of franchising as a growth engine
• How identifying an underserved customer segment can unlock explosive growth
• Why your hero product isn’t always what you think it is (hint: it’s not the chicken)
• How one word in a contract can cost millions

Timestamps:

• 00:09:11 – Fired from bartending for being “too intense”
• 00:14:26 – Starting a pizza shop in Dallas with $11,000
• 00:18:41 – Discovering an underserved customer base, and the power of word-of-mouth
• 00:23:07 – Why franchising can be the ultimate scaling strategy
• 00:24:09 – How Antonio realized wings could be a massive business
• 00:36:37 – A bend in the road: Why the first Wingstop struggled
• 00:50:29 – A bizarre vision at a football game: What if this stadium were full of chickens?
• 01:07:09 – The $22M purchase… the missing $12M, and suing to get his money
• 01:20:09 – Living in the moment post Pizza Patron and Wingstop

This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Olivia Rockman. Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Jimmy Keeley.

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Today’s callers: Michelle from California assesses the trade offs of accepting outside investment to scale her organic granola brand. Then, Gloria from Connecticut wonders how to overcome stigma and get more people talking about her pelvic floor therapy device. And Eric from Australia evaluates new markets for his maple-based sports nutrition products.

Plus, Dan and Angie’s take on why even the busiest entrepreneur should find time to turn off their phone at the dinner table...

Thank you to the founders of Nana Joes Granola, Elidah, and mapleROO for being a part of our show.

If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.

And be sure to listen to BOOMCHICKAPOP’S founding story as told by Angie and Dan on the show in 2019.

This episode was produced by Noor Gill with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Cena Loffredo.

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Back in the early days of ecommerce, Marc Lore took a classic retail loss leader–diapers– and turned it into a DTC giant– Diapers.com. It did so well that it attracted the attention of Amazon, which slashed prices on its own diapers until Marc was forced to sell them his business.

It was not a happy moment, but it was a galvanizing one: Marc went on to launch another ecommerce company, jet.com. Within a year, it was bought by Walmart in a deal valued at $3.3 billion.

This is a story about a devastating corporate surrender, a multi-million dollar comeback, and a founder with a relentless ability to re-invent himself.

Timestamps:

10:04 – Marc’s “boost-your-grades” bet with his college coach

14:21 – A job on Wall Street and a Master Plan: 8 figures by age 48

16:28 – How a lunchtime lark turned into a spot on the U.S. Bobsled Team

27:44 – How random Google searches led Marc to diapers

35:29 – Guerilla tactic: Buying all of P&G’s diapers to get their attention

40:07 – The simple packaging hack that boosted sales

45:53 – Building a retail empire (and getting on Amazon’s radar)

47:52 – Amazon’s scorched earth strategy forces Marc to sell

1:00:11 – Raising $750M to take on Jeff Bezos

1:03:02 – A brand new business and a $3.3 billion exit: Walmart’s record-breaking deal

This episode was produced by Casey Herman with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant.

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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.