Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity.

In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral ministry, processing the loss of a role he loved, recovering from work addiction, and discovering a new calling shepherding high-capacity leaders.

Along the way, he offers wisdom about identity, friendship, reconciliation, and trusting God when the future feels uncertain.

• Ministry transitions often bring grief and relief at the same time.
• Work addiction can quietly shape a leader's identity and relationships.
• Healthy transitions begin with embracing who you are apart from your role.
• Every leader needs authentic friendships, not just professional relationships.
• The gospel calls us to love across differences, especially when it's difficult.

00:00 Scott's ministry journey and pastoral background

02:20 An unexpected transition from pastoral ministry

05:00 Grief, relief, and leaving a church you love

07:00 Confronting work addiction through recovery

09:30 Is Scott still a pastor?

11:00 The birth of the Sycamore Community

16:30 Shepherding leaders outside the local church

18:30 The impact of ministry transitions on spouses and families

21:00 Loving across the lines of difference

27:00 The Mercy King and God's relentless love

If you're navigating a ministry transition, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Scott's work at Scott Sauls.

Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly.

After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence.

He also reflects on the leadership mistakes he nearly made during COVID and how stepping away for a year ultimately prepared both him and his church for a healthy transition.

• Healthy succession planning begins years before the transition.
• Founder transitions often succeed when leadership is shared rather than concentrated in one successor.
• Sabbaticals create space for leaders to rediscover who they are apart from their role.
• Feedback reveals blind spots that leaders cannot see on their own.
• Legacy is built by preparing others to succeed after you're gone.

00:00 Introduction and Keith's ministry journey

00:45 Nearly derailing a succession plan during COVID

01:45 Why handing leadership to a team changed everything

06:45 Building trust before succession

07:45 Why Keith stayed away for six months after stepping down

09:00 Lessons from an unexpected year-long sabbatical

15:20 Why every leader needs honest feedback

18:15 Processing life after ministry

24:00 The Growth Resourcing Group

26:00 Unknown: Finding Connection in a Disconnected World

27:30 Why Keith's next book is about finishing well

Preparing for a leadership transition? Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Keith's leadership resources at Keith Spurgin.

Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected?

In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God.

From sitting in rehab at age 55 to working at Home Depot and eventually launching Bringing Kingdom, Steve offers hope for anyone learning to trust God in a season they never planned for.

• Your identity is not determined by your title, income, or position.
• Hidden struggles become more dangerous when they remain isolated.
• Recovery begins when honesty replaces shame.
• God often uses seasons of transition to reveal deeper truths about who we are.
• Ministry is not confined to a church building or nonprofit organization.

00:00 Friendship, ministry history, and Steve's background

01:30 Seminary, missed opportunities, and unexpected career turns

03:45 Building a career in nonprofit ministry

06:00 Hidden struggles, addiction, and personal collapse

08:00 Rehab, recovery, and discovering the deeper issues

11:00 Losing a ministry position and starting over

12:30 Working at Home Depot and confronting identity

16:00 Launching Bringing Kingdom

21:30 The Father Eclipse and understanding father wounds

28:00 Helping men discover their identity

31:30 Financial uncertainty, faith, and trusting God's provision

40:30 Is there life after ministry?

If you're navigating a leadership transition or difficult season, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Steve's ministry at Bringing Kingdom.