Episodes

  • Humanitarianism and public health: an interview with Rick Brennan

    Humanitarianism and public health: an interview with Rick Brennan
    Jul 4 2026

    Rick Brennan, an Australian emergency physician appointed a Member of the Order of Australia in 2025, recounts the pivotal early decision that shaped his professional life — choosing public health and humanitarian work over clinical medicine after being offered a full-time role with the US Centers for Disease Control. He describes the emotional weight of that moment, knowing it meant the end of his clinical career, but reflects that he never looked back. He also discusses the countrywide mortality surveys he led in the Democratic Republic of the Congo during his decade at the International Rescue Committee, which documented over five million excess deaths — the vast majority caused not by direct violence but by the collapse of the health system.

    A substantial portion of the conversation covers Brennan's work in Liberia under President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, where strong national leadership from a Nobel Peace Prize–winning president and a transparent, dedicated minister of health helped the country meet the Millennium Development Goals for child mortality — a remarkable achievement for the seventh poorest country in the world, which reduced child mortality faster than any other country in Africa. Brennan highlights the role of well-designed transition funding from the US Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance in averting the closure of health facilities as humanitarian funding declined and development funding was slow to materialise.

    The discussion turns to the 2014 West Africa Ebola outbreak, where Brennan candidly acknowledges the World Health Organization's early failures, its slow scale-up across country office, regional and headquarters levels, and the organisation's struggle to communicate its subsequent course corrections — including then-Director-General Margaret Chan's concern that doing so would sound defensive. He reflects on the importance of community engagement and working through local NGOs with established field presence, rather than arriving with a top-down expert approach. The crisis ultimately catalysed WHO's shift toward an all-hazards emergency management framework and the establishment of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme under Pete Salama in 2016, bringing preparedness, detection, response and recovery work under a single program.

    Brennan details his experience covering Afghanistan following the Taliban takeover, including the pragmatic diplomacy required to convene meetings in Doha that brought Taliban health officials together with major donors who were officially prohibited from engaging with the new government. He describes the development of an interim health strategy with buy-in from UNICEF, the World Bank and USAID that became the basis for continued donor funding through UN agencies rather than the government. The conversation also touches on the impact of recent US aid cuts, what Australia can do to help fill emerging gaps in the region, and the unfinished business of the grand bargain — particularly on unearmarked funding, cash transfers, pooled funding and the localisation agenda, where funding through local partners reached only four and a half per cent by 2023 against a 25 per cent target.

    The episode's most confronting segment addresses Gaza, where Brennan outlines the scale of devastation: over 70,000 deaths, 170,000 injured, 42,000 facing lifetime disabilities, and 92 per cent of dwellings damaged or destroyed. He discusses the systematic obstruction of humanitarian access negotiated through COGAT, with well over 50 per cent of mission requests denied at times, and WHO's documentation of more than 840 attacks on healthcare in Gaza and over 900 in the West Bank since the conflict began. Brennan notes that WHO's global surveillance system has recorded over 9,200 attacks on healthcare since 2018, resulting in more than 4,000 deaths — averaging three attacks and one and a half deaths per day — with not a single person held to account. He points to the polio vaccination campaign, which achieved 95 per cent coverage during a ceasefire, as evidence of what can be accomplished when access and resources are provided, and calls for a global alliance for the protection of healthcare grounded in the political will of member states.

    Devpolicy Talks is the podcast of the Australian National University's Development Policy Centre.

    Read and subscribe to our daily blogs at devpolicy.org.

    Learn more about our research and join our public events at devpolicy.anu.edu.au.

    Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram for latest updates on our blogs, research and events.

    You can send us feedback, and ideas for episodes too, to devpolicy@anu.edu.au.
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    51 mins
  • 2026 aid budget breakfast

    2026 aid budget breakfast
    May 15 2026

    Recorded the morning after the 2026–27 federal budget, this first episode of the 2026 season brings you the Development Policy Centre's fourteenth annual aid budget breakfast, hosted by Devpolicy Blog editor Amita Monterola with analysis from Cameron Hill and Robin Davies. The session was held live from the Pacific Security College studio at the Crawford School, with questions from an online audience of aid practitioners, researchers, students and government officials.

    Cameron and Robin both refer to slide presentations throughout; a video recording with the slides is available on the Development Policy Centre's YouTube channel.

    Cameron unpacks how the government's 2.5% indexation measure — promised in the 2023 budget — is being applied for the first time. Combined with a 5% inflation estimate for the current financial year and slightly lower inflation thereafter, the result is a cumulative real fall in ODA of around 7% across the forward estimates. The ODA/GNI ratio falls from 0.18% to 0.16%, aid as a share of the federal budget drops from 0.65% to 0.58%, and the projected ratio of defence to aid spending widens from roughly 11:1 today to around 18:1 by the mid-2030s. The program also becomes more concentrated on the Pacific, which now receives 42% of Australian ODA, while spending on South and West Asia, Africa, the Middle East and global programs has fallen substantially over the past decade.

    Within this year's budget, Cameron highlights a $111 million reduction in global and multilateral funding, including cuts to UNDP and Global Partnership for Education core funding and the cessation of Australia's contributions to UNAIDS and the Pandemic Fund. He notes a recurring tension: Australia continues to reprioritise away from multilateral core funding while simultaneously asking those agencies to direct more resources to the Pacific.

    Robin then places the Australian figures in their global context. Global ODA fell by 23% — around $50 billion — from 2024 to 2025, the steepest single-year decline since records began in the 1960s. On current policy settings, he projects aid will be around 40% below its 2023 peak by 2028, with the cuts driven by a group of roughly ten donors led by the United States, but with Germany, France, the Netherlands and others still having most of their announced cuts ahead of them. The OECD's own projections are more optimistic, as they were a year ago. Contributions from non-DAC donors, including China, have drifted up to around $15–16 billion annually but come nowhere near offsetting the cuts.

    A wide-ranging Q&A session then covers multilateral effectiveness in the Pacific, ODA graduation and Nauru's likely move to high-income status, the treatment of AIFFP loan grant equivalents, the adequacy of humanitarian funding amid escalating global needs, peacebuilding and conflict prevention, climate finance and the prospects for the Pacific COP, and whether private finance might fill the gap left by shrinking public aid budgets.

    Devpolicy Talks is the podcast of the Australian National University's Development Policy Centre.

    Read and subscribe to our daily blogs at devpolicy.org.

    Learn more about our research and join our public events at devpolicy.anu.edu.au.

    Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram for latest updates on our blogs, research and events.

    You can send us feedback, and ideas for episodes too, to devpolicy@anu.edu.au.
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    59 mins
  • Navigating China and the Global South: a conversation with Eric Olander

    Navigating China and the Global South: a conversation with Eric Olander
    Dec 15 2025
    Eric Olander, Editor-in-Chief of the China Global South Project, offers a nuanced perspective on China’s engagement with developing countries across Africa, Southeast Asia, Latin America and the Pacific. Drawing on 40 years of experience as a journalist covering China, including stints at the BBC, Associated Press and CNN, Olander challenges dominant Western narratives about Chinese development finance, including the much-discussed “debt trap” thesis. He examines the evolution of the Belt and Road Initiative toward “small yet beautiful” projects, explores how developing countries are exercising agency in navigating great power competition, and discusses China’s construction of a parallel international governance architecture. In a frank assessment of China’s presence in the Pacific Islands, Olander argues that Australian anxieties about military threats are disproportionate to actual Chinese capabilities, while suggesting pathways for more constructive engagement between Western donors and China in development cooperation.The conversation begins with Olander’s journey to covering China, having started studying Chinese in 1985 as a teenager in California when China was still poorer than most African countries. His career progressed through internships at radio stations in Taiwan and Hong Kong to positions at the BBC, Associated Press in Beijing, and CNN. It was during travels to Africa from the mid-2000s that he witnessed the explosive growth of Chinese presence — from one Chinese restaurant in Kinshasa in 2005 to a boom of construction crews, Huawei signs and Chinese enterprises by 2009. When he asked his Congolese employees what they thought of China, their nuanced, complex answers contrasted sharply with the polarised narratives in Western and Chinese media, sparking the insight that would eventually become the China Global South Project.The China Global South Project, which evolved from the China Africa Project, operates as an independent, non-partisan research and analysis service serving governments, universities and corporations across 15 to 20 countries. Funded through a mix of grants, university partnerships and subscriptions, the project maintains strict editorial independence — a stance that regularly draws accusations of being both a CIA spy and a CCP shill, sometimes within the same week. Olander notes that the project has faced sophisticated cyberattacks and has been targeted by Chinese state media, reflecting the sensitive nature of coverage that refuses to adopt binary positions on China.On the much-debated “debt trap diplomacy” thesis, Olander presents a detailed rebuttal drawing on research from institutions including Boston University, Johns Hopkins, Chatham House and the AidData Institute at William and Mary College. He argues that the narrative, first proposed by Indian pundit Brahma Chellaney in 2017, does not hold up to empirical scrutiny. Chinese loans to Africa at their peak represented only 18% of the continent’s debt, concentrated mostly in five countries with Angola alone accounting for a third. More importantly, Olander contends that the Chinese were never seeking assets — as Western imperial powers historically did — but rather repayment and cash. The infamous Hambantota port case in Sri Lanka, he explains, resulted from the incompetence and corruption of the Rajapaksa family rather than Chinese asset seizure, with the 99-year lease arising because the Chinese had no interest in taking back the port and pushed for a solution to recover their investment.The interview explores the evolution of the Belt and Road Initiative from massive infrastructure lending to “small yet beautiful” projects. Olander identifies four key drivers of this transition: China’s reduced excess capital due to slower economic growth and domestic debt problems; domestic political pushback against large overseas expenditures; borrower countries’ reduced capacity to take on debt following the pandemic; and Beijing’s shift toward private sector and provincial-level engagement rather than central government lending. The Belt and Road’s deliberate lack of institutional structure — no secretariat, no headquarters — has proven to be a feature rather than a bug, allowing it to adapt to changing circumstances.Challenging another common assumption, Olander argues that developing countries exercise considerable agency in navigating great power competition rather than being passive victims buffeted by China-West rivalry. He points to Kenya’s success under President Uhuru Kenyatta in maintaining robust relations with both China and the West, becoming a non-NATO major ally while hosting major Chinese infrastructure projects. Cambodia under Hun Manet represents an even more surprising example, pivoting away from his father Hun Sen’s China-heavy approach to welcome US naval vessels at Chinese-built ports while maintaining engagement with Beijing. Countries like Vietnam ...
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    1 hr and 35 mins
  • Pacific democracy: global indices and lived realities

    Pacific democracy: global indices and lived realities
    Dec 6 2025

    This episode explores the state of democracy in the Pacific, focusing on a joint report by International IDEA and the Australia National University's Department of Pacific Affairs (DPA). The report, released in mid-2025, assesses data from Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands and Vanuatu. It then looks at all Pacific nations, covering the six themes of grassroots democracy, scale, localised politics, cohabitation, political marginalisation and democratic innovation.

    After an introduction by International IDEA Director for Asia and the Pacific Leena Rikkila Tamang and DPA head Sonia Palmieri, three ANU Pasifika researchers, Michael Kabuni, Anna Naupa and Romitesh Kant, discuss the findings.

    Metrics like voter turnout and constituency funds are analysed. Challenges such as gender representation and civil society participation are highlighted. The conversation also touches on the role of international donors and the need for more research to understand the complexity of Pacific democracy.

    Assessing the State of Democracy in the Pacific - download the International IDEA / DPA report

    The Global State of Democracy 2025: Democracy on the Move - download the International IDEA report

    Unspoken Rules of Politics: Uncovering the Motivations of Voters in Vanuatu's Elections - download DPA report

    Refereeing democracy: judiciary, parliament and executive in 50 years of Papua New Guinea politics - article by Michael Kabuni

    Voting Methods and Their Distribution in Papua New Guinea - DPA discussion paper by Thiago Cintra Oppermann, Nicole Haley and Colin Wiltshire

    Devpolicy Talks is the podcast of the Australian National University's Development Policy Centre.

    Read and subscribe to our daily blogs at devpolicy.org.

    Learn more about our research and join our public events at devpolicy.anu.edu.au.

    Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram for latest updates on our blogs, research and events.

    You can send us feedback, and ideas for episodes too, to devpolicy@anu.edu.au.
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    1 hr and 19 mins
  • Global public goods and the architecture of cooperation: a conversation with Inge Kaul

    Global public goods and the architecture of cooperation: a conversation with Inge Kaul
    Nov 14 2025
    Inge Kaul, pioneering development economist and architect of the global public goods framework, discusses her groundbreaking work on international cooperation and development financing in this 2015 interview recorded at her flat in Berlin. Economists define public goods — like street lighting — as things everyone benefits from that nobody can be excluded from using. The problem is that individuals won't voluntarily pay for them, so governments provide them through taxation. Kaul's insight was recognising that globalisation has created global public goods — climate stability, disease control, financial stability — that benefit everyone across borders but that no world government exists to provide. Her central argument: financing cooperation on global public goods requires "new and additional" resources beyond traditional development assistance, because they serve fundamentally different purposes — one driven by moral concern for the poor, the other by shared self-interest. The conversation explores the fierce political resistance her ideas encountered, the chronic diversion of aid money towards global public goods purposes in violation of international agreements, her critical assessment of the SDGs, and the structural reforms needed in multilateral institutions. Kaul passed away in 2023, making this interview a valuable record of her intellectual legacy.The interview begins with Kaul explaining the origins and breakthrough of the global public goods concept. To understand why this concept matters, it helps to start with the basic economic definition. A public good is something that has two key characteristics: it's non-excludable (you can't prevent people from benefiting from it) and non-rivalrous (one person's use doesn't diminish another's). Classic examples include street lighting, national defence or clean air — once these exist, everyone benefits whether they pay for them or not. This creates a problem: rational individuals won't voluntarily pay for public goods because they can "free ride" on others' contributions. That's why governments typically provide public goods through taxation.Kaul's crucial insight was recognising that globalisation has created a new category: global public goods. Just as street lighting benefits everyone in a city regardless of who pays, climate stability, control of infectious diseases, financial market stability and a rules-based trading system benefit everyone on Earth regardless of which countries contribute to providing them. But there's a fundamental problem: there's no world government with the power to tax and provide these goods. Instead, sovereign nations must cooperate voluntarily to produce them. While earlier scholars like Kindleberger and Bruce Russett had used the term in academic journals, it was the 1999 UNDP publication Global Public Goods: International Cooperation in the 21st Century, edited by Kaul, that brought the concept into policy discourse.Kaul's central argument was that international cooperation operates along two fundamentally different tracks: traditional development assistance motivated by equity concerns for poor countries, and cooperation to provide global public goods driven by enlightened self-interest shared across all countries, rich and poor alike. Crucially, different countries have different priorities amongst global public goods. An Ethiopian woman facing maternal mortality risks might value accessible medicines more urgently than climate mitigation, even whilst recognising climate's importance. This variation in preferences means that international negotiations around global public goods resemble a political marketplace where agreements require fair terms of trade that make all parties better off. You can't simply impose solutions — you need to negotiate agreements where everyone perceives themselves as better off participating than not participating.Kaul reserves her sharpest criticism for the widespread practice of diverting official development assistance (ODA) towards global public goods purposes, particularly environmental programs. She argues this violates international agreements dating to the 1992 Earth Summit, which stipulated that financing for global environmental challenges should come from "new and additional" resources, not existing aid budgets. By 2015, she notes, approximately 24% of ODA had climate change as a primary purpose, with even more having it as a secondary objective — a figure that had risen from 33% across all global challenges in 1999. This diversion, she contends, undermines the capacity to address the growing number of failed and failing states that need resources for conventional development purposes.When Kaul challenged the chair of the Green Climate Fund at a resource mobilisation meeting in Berlin about whether they would require proof that contributions were "new and additional," the chair had to take a deep breath and look around for someone on the board to answer. The ...
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    2 hrs and 12 mins
  • Water, climate and adaptation: a conversation with Dr Aditi Mukherji

    Water, climate and adaptation: a conversation with Dr Aditi Mukherji
    Nov 1 2025
    Dr Aditi Mukherji, Principal Scientist at the International Livestock Research Institute and coordinating lead author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's water chapter, discusses her career spanning groundwater management, climate adaptation and the urgent challenge of the 1.5-degree threshold. From her groundbreaking work challenging conventional wisdom about groundwater in eastern India — which led to policy changes benefiting 200,000 farmers — to rehabilitating dying springs in the Himalayas, Mukherji reveals how climate change is transforming every component of the water cycle. She explains why adaptation measures are losing effectiveness as temperatures rise, what the IPCC's water assessment tells us about climate impacts on agriculture, and how pastoral communities in the Global South require different approaches to livestock and climate policy.The conversation begins with Mukherji's entry into water and climate research, shaped by her childhood experiences in the climate-vulnerable Sundarbans region of India and her family's involvement in agriculture. After completing her master's degree, she joined the International Water Management Institute's IWMI-Tata program, which set her on a path to Cambridge University as a Gates Cambridge scholar.Mukherji's early research challenged prevailing assumptions about groundwater scarcity in eastern India. Working in West Bengal, a region receiving three to four times more rainfall than water-scarce areas like Punjab, she discovered that the fundamental problem wasn't water scarcity but restrictive policies. Farmers needed permission from distant government departments to connect to the electricity grid for irrigation, leading to bureaucratic delays and corruption. Her research demonstrated that with metered electricity pricing and proper incentives, farmers could sustainably use groundwater while transitioning away from diesel pumps. This work culminated in a change to groundwater law following a state government transition, resulting in electricity connections for approximately 200,000 farmers. Her subsequent work in the Himalayas addressed a different water crisis: the drying of mountain springs that serve as the sole water source for upland communities. Despite the Himalayas being the water towers of Asia, settlements in the middle elevations — too far from glaciers and too high above river valleys — faced acute scarcity. Mukherji's research revealed that springs were drying primarily due to infrastructure development rather than climate change directly. Road construction and hydropower dam building disrupted the underground flow paths between recharge and discharge points. Using a combination of hydrogeological science, isotope tracing and indigenous knowledge, her team identified recharge areas and implemented rehabilitation programs. This work has influenced major government spring rehabilitation initiatives across India, though she notes that without better planning of infrastructure projects, solutions remain piecemeal.As coordinating lead author of the IPCC's water chapter, Mukherji synthesises five critical findings. First, every component of the water cycle — rainfall, permafrost, glaciers, groundwater — has been transformed by anthropogenic climate change, with largely negative impacts. Second, because water is used across all economic sectors, climate impacts are felt everywhere, particularly in agriculture, the largest consumptive water user. Third, these impacts disproportionately affect vulnerable populations, especially in the Global South where agriculture has become "the parking lot for the poor". Fourth, while water-related adaptation is happening extensively worldwide, its effectiveness varies significantly due to limitations in finance and technology. Fifth, water must be recognised in mitigation discussions, as greenhouse gas reduction strategies — such as bioenergy crops — have substantial water implications.The conversation turns to the declining effectiveness of adaptation as temperatures rise. Mukherji emphasises that 1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels is not merely aspirational but represents a critical threshold, particularly for Pacific island nations where it means the difference between staying afloat and sinking. She provides a stark example from India's 2022 heat wave, which struck in early March when wheat was flowering — far earlier than historical patterns. Temperatures of 47-48 degrees during this critical growth stage overwhelmed even heat-tolerant seed varieties and irrigated systems. Breeders struggle to develop varieties that can withstand such extreme heat during flowering, illustrating the physical limits of adaptation.Reflecting on Australia's potential contributions, Mukherji highlights three areas: expanded research collaboration leveraging Australia's extensive scientific networks (universities, CSIRO, ACIAR); increased funding support for less-resourced regions; and ...
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    36 mins
  • Youth uprisings: understanding the protests in Indonesia and Nepal

    Youth uprisings: understanding the protests in Indonesia and Nepal
    Oct 17 2025
    In August and September 2024, thousands of young people took to the streets across Southeast and South Asia in unprecedented displays of protest. This episode examines the youth-led demonstrations that erupted in Indonesia on 25 August and Nepal on 8 September, exploring the deeper frustrations driving Generation Z activism beyond the headlines of violence and regime change. Host Amita Monterola speaks with Garry Rosario da Gama, a PhD student researching corruption networks in Indonesia at the Australian National University's Crawford School of Public Policy, and Puspa Paudel, program manager at the Center for Investigative Journalism in Nepal. Together they discuss how embedded corruption, elite privilege and economic inequality triggered mass protests that resulted in ten deaths in Indonesia and regime change in Nepal, where 72 people died and the country appointed its first female prime minister as a caretaker leader.The conversation begins with the immediate triggers for the protests in each country. In Indonesia, demonstrations erupted after 21-year-old taxi driver Afan Kurnia was killed by a police vehicle, with video of the incident going viral. However, Garry explains that this was a breaking point reflecting deeper frustrations with daily struggles including rising food and fuel costs, stagnant wages, unaffordable housing and lack of formal employment for educated youth. Meanwhile, members of Parliament received housing allowances nearly ten times the minimum wage. The protests spread to 144 of Indonesia's 514 districts, bringing together students, taxi drivers and NGOs in a coalition demanding what became known as the “17 plus 8” reforms — seventeen short-term changes within one week and eight longer-term reforms within one year.In Nepal, Puspa describes how the protests began through social media, particularly TikTok and Instagram, where videos of politicians' children and family members flaunting extravagant wealth went viral amongst a generation struggling with extreme poverty. One particularly powerful trigger was a video of a parliamentarian's vehicle hitting an 11-year-old girl without stopping. On 8 September, young protesters gathered peacefully at Maitighar in Kathmandu, but when they attempted to reach the parliamentary building, police opened fire. Nineteen young people, many in school uniforms, were shot in the head with live ammunition. The brutality of the response, combined with the Prime Minister's refusal to resign and lack of remorse from government spokespersons, triggered massive nationwide violence on 9 September that saw the burning of government buildings, ministers' homes, police stations, media houses and business premises.The episode explores the embedded nature of corruption in both countries. Garry's research in Kupang city, Indonesia, reveals how corruption operates through networks connecting contractors, politicians, public servants, law enforcement officials and brokers. Contractors are expected to pay off multiple parties, with only 70-80% of budgets actually going to project work. This explains why roads crumble after one rainy season, clinics run out of medicine and schools lack basic furniture. Indonesians commonly refer to this system as KKN (korupsi, kolusi, dan nepotisme — corruption, collusion and nepotism), a term enshrined in a 1999 law. The Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) was established in 2002, but the government attempted to weaken it in 2019, triggering public anger.Puspa explains that corruption in Nepal is perceived not merely as a governance issue but as a moral, ethical and political betrayal. Since the 2015 Constitution established Nepal as a federal republic with three tiers of elected government, power has rotated between just three leaders: KP Sharma Oli, Pushpa Kamal Dahal “Prachanda”, and Sher Bahadur Deuba. Corruption scandals are routinely used as bargaining chips in coalition negotiations rather than leading to accountability. The Commission for Investigation of Abuse of Authority (CIAA), Nepal's anti-corruption body, has itself become a tool of political parties who nominate loyalists to protect themselves from prosecution. Young people's first encounters with government institutions — obtaining citizenship cards or registering documents — teach them that middlemen and bribes are necessary to navigate systems that should be straightforward.Both guests discuss the challenges facing watchdog organisations. Garry describes how youth organisations in Kupang, many religion-based, have connections to the very politicians they're meant to criticise. Dependent on government funding for operations, they face pressure from senior politicians to “be more relaxed” and “not push too hard.” Police intimidation compounds these pressures. Puspa notes that whilst individual journalists in Nepal produce excellent investigative reporting on corruption, civil society organisations have failed to pressure government for ...
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    47 mins
  • From Vanuatu's challenges to Melanesian cooperation: a conversation with Gregoire Nimbtik

    From Vanuatu's challenges to Melanesian cooperation: a conversation with Gregoire Nimbtik
    Oct 10 2025
    The conversation begins with Nimbtik's background as head of Vanuatu's Prime Minister's Department and Deputy Director General of the Melanesian Spearhead Group Secretariat. He provides context for understanding Vanuatu's current challenges by tracing the country's history from its unique condominium colonial system — where British and French administrations operated in parallel — through independence in 1980, when the country inherited a fundamentally divided administrative structure.Nimbtik identifies political instability, which began in earnest in 1991, as the root cause of many of Vanuatu's contemporary challenges. He discusses the bankruptcy of Air Vanuatu in May 2024, explaining how government ownership and political control of the airline's board — with changes occurring after each government transition — ultimately led to its liquidation. This crisis occurred against a backdrop of repeated natural disasters, including Cyclone Pam in 2015, Tropical Cyclone Harold, Twin Cyclones Judy and Kevin, and volcanic eruptions, culminating in the December 2024 earthquake that struck Port Vila. These compounding crises have left Vanuatu struggling to recover from one disaster before the next hits.The conversation explores Vanuatu's linguistic and cultural diversity — 110 languages representing 110 different value systems — which Nimbtik sees as contributing to the proliferation of political parties and the difficulty of creating inclusive societies. Recent constitutional amendments, including provisions 17A and 17B, aim to reduce political instability by making it harder for politicians to switch parties. Amendment 17B specifically requires independent members to affiliate with a larger political body within three months of election. Whilst these amendments are being implemented, their validity is still being challenged in court, with the decision yet to be released.Drawing on his PhD research at RMIT on corruption in politics, Nimbtik discusses the fundamental tension between custom governance and Westminster systems in Vanuatu. He explains how traditional leadership expectations — where a legitimate leader is someone who distributes resources, regardless of how those resources are obtained — clash with modern governance standards. This creates situations where behaviour viewed as corrupt through a Western lens may be seen as moral leadership within custom governance. Nimbtik points to the December earthquake as evidence of corruption's impact, noting that buildings collapsed because building codes were not enforced, yet there has been little public accountability or civil society reaction.The interview addresses growing geopolitical competition in the Pacific, with Nimbtik arguing that China's approach to development cooperation differs fundamentally from that of OECD countries. While Western partners focus on schools and dispensaries, China has invested in major government infrastructure like the President's Palace, National Convention Centre, and ministry buildings — investments that no Western partner has been willing to make. He emphasises that all countries, including small island states, are engaging with China primarily for economic reasons, and that larger countries like Australia and the United States expect smaller nations to adopt their geopolitical positions, treating China as an enemy if they do.On labour mobility, Nimbtik notes that programs like the Pacific Australia Labour Mobility scheme, the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme, and the Seasonal Worker Programme were originally designed as capacity-building exercises. The intention was for farmers to go to Australia or New Zealand, learn skills, earn money, and return to start businesses, potentially accessing loans from the Agriculture Rural Development Bank at lower interest rates to complement their savings. However, this objective has been diverted, with labour mobility becoming one-way migration that depletes rural areas of young, energetic workers. Nimbtik notes the irony that while individuals may improve their wellbeing through remittances, the national economic impact is questionable, and the skills shortage is hurting both the private and public sectors. He indicates that the program has become a source of political propaganda, with politicians using it to secure votes by sending more people from their areas overseas.The conversation turns to Vanuatu's controversial citizenship-by-investment scheme, which can contribute 20 to 30% of government revenues in some years. Nimbtik explains that the scheme was introduced in desperation following Cyclone Pam in 2015 to fill budget shortfalls, but without realising it would become a source of corruption. He contrasts Vanuatu's approach — selling citizenship for cash contributions of US$130,000 — with more developed countries that tie citizenship to substantial investment in projects that generate employment and tax revenue. The recent Andrew Tate case, where the ...
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    36 mins