Description: Three years ago, Katherine May gave us a language for something many of us experience but rarely know how to name: wintering. Those seasons of life when everything slows down. When grief arrives. When burnout catches up with us. When illness, loss, caregiving, parenting challenges, or unexpected change force us to stop and reconsider how we're living. As part of our Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife series, we're revisiting this unforgettable conversation because Katherine's wisdom feels even more relevant today than it did when it first aired. Together, Jen and Katherine explore what it means to stop treating ourselves like machines and start honoring our humanity. They discuss the value of retreat, the necessity of rest, and why healing cannot be rushed. Katherine challenges the cultural pressure to push through difficult seasons and instead invites us to trust that growth is still happening beneath the surface—even when life appears dormant. Nestled in this conversation is a gentle reminder that joy isn't always found by adding more. Sometimes it emerges when we create space. Space for solitude. Space for beauty. Space to notice what's growing quietly within us. If you've been feeling weary, stretched thin, or ready to step off the hamster wheel for a moment, this episode offers a different path forward—one marked by grace, patience, and the courage to rest before collapse forces it upon us. In this very gentle and generous conversation, you’ll hear:

• Why every life includes seasons of "wintering"
• The difference between retreat and isolation
• How beauty sustains us during difficult seasons
• Why sadness isn't something to fix
• Practical ways to create restorative space in everyday life
• What it means to trust the season you're in Sometimes the most sacred yes isn't a leap forward. It's permission to pause. Thought-provoking Quotes:
• "You can trust this space, and you can trust your sadness. It's telling you something. You don't have to run away from it. You can be sad. You can handle being sad. What you can't handle is pretending not to be sad and being sad anyway." — Katherine May
• "There is a process of healing, and it's also a process of change. Those things will take a certain amount of time whatever you do. You are not doing anything wrong if you're still suffering a week later, a month later, or six months later." — Katherine May
• "If you can lean into that space and accept it rather than fight it, you will spare yourself a lot of pain." — Katherine May
• "People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, 'I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant I couldn't be who I am now.'" — Katherine May
• "Look for beauty in that space. Reacquaint yourself with your gut feeling that leads you toward what you find beautiful and awe-inspiring." — Katherine May Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
• [Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times](https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/wintering/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) by Katherine May - https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/wintering/
• [Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age](https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/enchantment/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) by Katherine May - https://katherine-may.co.uk/books/enchantment/
• [The Sea, The Sea by Iris Murdoch](

Description:

In this deeply personal solo episode, Jen takes us to the place where this journey began: Me Camp. What started as a spontaneous trip to coastal Maine during one of the hardest seasons of her life became an annual practice of restoration, adventure, healing, and joy. Six summers later, as she arrives in a tiny lakeside town in Ontario for another month of Me Camp, she's reflecting on the small word that changed everything: yes.

This month, we'll be exploring what it means to reclaim joy, embrace rest, honor our desires, and create lives that are not just productive—but deeply satisfying.

It's time to discover your own Sacred Yes.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “MeCamp changed my life. I’m not being demonstrative or exaggerating. It's where the ‘Sacred Yes’ got its first footing.” – Jen Hatmaker
• “I keep my heart open to whatever's possible. Who could I meet? What could I experience? Where could I go? What can I see? And when people are like, hey, do you wanna…? The answer's yes. And so that sacred yes got sort of imprinted on my heart.” – Jen Hatmaker
• “I feel the weight of irresponsible yeses that should have been no's.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• MeCamp 2026 Announcement -
• Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4xzBo5n
• Jen’s Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/
• Join the Awake Collective - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/p/the-awake-collective
• Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Description: As part of our Freedom & Flourishing series this Pride Month, we're revisiting the most downloaded episode in the history of For the Love—a conversation that has continued to ripple through families, friendships, and faith communities for years after it first aired.

Six years ago, Jen sat down with her daughter Sydney to hand her the microphone and invite her to tell her own story in her own words. What followed was a brave, tender, and deeply honest conversation about growing up gay in the church, loving Jesus while feeling afraid and alone, and finding the courage to embrace the fullness of who you are.

Sydney shares what it was like to navigate faith and identity as a young person, the messages she received from churches and Christian leaders, and the real impact those messages have on LGBTQIA+ kids sitting quietly in pews every Sunday. Together, Jen and Sydney discuss what true allyship requires, why affirmation matters, and how we can create homes, communities, and faith spaces where people are cherished exactly as they are.

In this episode:

• Sydney shares her journey of growing up gay within a Christian family and faith community
• A candid conversation about faith, identity, and belonging
• What churches and Christian leaders need to understand about LGBTQIA+ youth
• Why allyship requires more than acceptance—it requires action
• A call to advocate for and protect transgender people, who often face the greatest vulnerability
• How creating safe, welcoming spaces helps all people flourish

Content Note: This episode includes discussion of the mental health challenges, isolation, and discrimination often experienced by LGBTQIA+ youth.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• "I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all." — Sydney Hatmaker
• "It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God." — Sydney Hatmaker
• "The biggest act of allyship you can make is using your voice in places where marginalized people feel less safe." — Sydney Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• This Is How It Always Is by Laurie Frankel — https://www.lauriefrankel.net/this-is-how-it-always-is.html
• Human Rights Campaign LGBTQ+ Youth Research — https://www.thehrcfoundation.org/reports/collections/youth-report-collection
• HRC & University of Connecticut LGBTQ+ Youth Study — https://reports.hrc.org/2023-lgbtq-youth-report

Connect with Jen!
Website: https://jenhatmaker.com/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.